While I will not pretend to be an H1N1 (Swine Flu) alarmist, I must admit the possibility of a virus of unknown (at least officially) origin bothers me a bit. Otherwise healthy people dropping dead from a flu virus is odd - so while not panicked I am concerned.
However, I am more troubled by the fact that cases in the U.S. are probably greatly under-reported. Not because of a lack of testing equipment, but because of an inadequate healthcare system.
How many people are suffering but will never see a doctor and be counted?
How many people could be saved if we had universal health care?
How many infected will forgo Tamiflu because they need to buy food?
How many people will go unvaccinated because they have no healthcare coverage?
Obviously, this is an exercise in "what if", but we are kind of in that type of situation. While the number of infected is relatively low, we are being warned that a pandemic is imminent.
Why don't we the people have access to all the weapons we need to fight?
President Obama has been quoted as saying that universal health care would be his preference if we were building a system from scratch. I would humbly submit to my President that sometimes you have to cut your losses and raze the house. Our system is inherently corrupt (see Donald Rumsfeld's profits off of the SARS scare if you don't believe me), it rewards greed and that is not healthy for those of us subjected to it.
I have mentioned in previous posts my wish that our Congresspeople relinquish their tax-payer funded healthcare, if they feel that we do not deserve the same. I stand by that demand. If they feel that their constituents should face a pandemic on their own - well then they should be down in the trenches with us.
I have been trying to figure out a way to write this, so that I don't alienate or offend anyone, well anymore than I usually do...
In regards to the torture argument, I have heard two things repeatedly. 1) It worked, 2) There are bad people and we have to protect ourselves.
For the first argument, there is little evidence to say that "torture" worked in any substantive way. Maybe we got a couple names, but I really haven't seen evidence of anything more than that. Now there was a lot of bogus information extracted - which is the real problem with these illegal tactics. Our own military warned the powers that be against torture, they were also concerned that it would increase the chance of our soldiers experiencing poor treatment if captured.
"The unintended consequence of a U.S. policy that provides for the torture of prisoners is that it could be used by our adversaries as justification for the torture of captured U.S. personnel," says the document, an unsigned two-page attachment to a memo by the military's Joint Personnel Recovery Agency."
For the second argument, it's a bit more difficult. Yes, there are people that would love to see the American way of life damaged - there always have been. That's one of the prices we pay for being a superpower.
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
It's important not to forget that a number of the people that were subjected to these "enhanced interrogation techniques" or to the degradation of Abu Ghraib were nobodies, they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, or were sold out by some greedy warlord.
Consider this:
Someone you know does something bad - lets say they are a drug smuggler. Would you support the Federal government knocking down your door, throwing a hood over your head and sending you half a world a way so that they can "extract" information from you? Now imagine that you repeatedly tell them that you don't know where the person is or what they do - you haven't seen them in years. They tell you they have witnesses that you have been seen with this person. They decide that the only way to get the information they need will be to use harsher techniques - they keep you awake for days, they strip you of your clothes and your dignity, they keep you in a small, cramped box, then they strap you to a board and pretend to drown you.
Is this right? Is this what you would want done to you or your family? Is that American? I honestly think that very few Americans would wish this on any of their neighbors - so why do we have so little regard for those around the world?
When I was little, my mom always used to tell me "Two wrongs, don't make a right". I think the Government and the American people could use a refresher on that lesson.
Today in defense of both her father and the techniques outlined in the "torture memos", Liz Cheney said something rather interesting:
CHENEY: Everything that was done in this program, as has been laid out and described before, are tactics that our own people go through in SERE training.
Thanks to Thinkprogess.org for the video!
SERE is an acronym for Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape. The program was developed as a way to prepare our soldiers for the possibility of capture. Soldiers are subjected to simulated interrogations to prepare them for what could happen. This includes the use of questionable and torturous techniques - so that our soldiers are prepared for what the "bad guys" do.
So let me spell this out for Ms. Cheney - if you are going to say that we are not "bad guys" then we can not be seen doing in anger what the "bad guys do". Got it?
How hard is that concept for the Hannitys, O'Reillys, Limbaughs, Becks, Scarboroughs to understand? Do they have such a low opinion of our nation that they feel this isn't something to be ashamed of? Or are they so scared that something might happen to them or their gated communities that they are blind with fear, rage and hatred? Or is it that they are just perverse fratboys that get off on the idea of humiliating, breaking down and hurting another human?
These memos illustrate a battle for the soul of our nation.
Either you believe that we must rise above the tactics of madmen and be what we say we are.
Or you feel that the ends justify the means, no matter how barbaric.
Shep Smith gave a rather passionate response to the possibility of our nation torturing people, while he straddled the fence a bit - his reasoning is correct. You can not claim the moral high ground, while wallowing in the gutter.
Here's a link to an uncensored Shep Smith: NSFW, but EXCELLENT! (it's the 2nd video)
It is very disheartening to me that so many people in this nation seem to be justifying the treatment outlined in the newly released "torture memos". Talking heads (you should be ashamed Joe Scarborough) seem to think that this is an "all is fair in love and war" type of situation and that couldn't be further from the truth. This is a "we lost our soul" situation. In our history we have supported multiple trials against people and countries for this type of behavior. Please do not give me the Geneva convention argument - Yes, I am aware these are not traditional troops, however, that is nothing more than a semantic justification for something that is wholly unjustifiable.
Lets talk Waterboarding....
This is a dumb story, but it's applicable. When I was little (maybe 6 or so) - I was learning to do underwater somersaults in my local pool. I opened my eyes and saw blue and thought I was facing toward the surface, so I went what I thought was up and started to take a breath - soon it was OBVIOUS that I was not headed up. I was disoriented, I couldn't breathe, I was freaking out - I seriously thought I was drowning. I was struggling trying to figure out which was was up - finally, someone grabbed me and pulled me out. That type of reaction is instinctual.
At some point, humans decided that this type of panic could be exploited. The Japanese were tried for war crimes for doing it.
I guess it's a "nothing new under the sun" moment for our intelligence gathers.
The memos reveal that the CIA was concerned about the effects of repeated Waterboarding, that they suggested that a saline solution be used instead. You might be asking - why at this point. The CIA hired doctors realized that the potential for water poisoning existed. THIS CAN KILL PEOPLE. You might remember a few years back, a woman died after a radio show promotion that involved chugging water (she was trying to win a Wii) - the human body can only process so much water before the balance of minerals are upset. Water intoxication/poisoning can happen after ingesting around 2.6 gallons of water in a short amount of time.
Think about that for a minute - they were concerned that the detainees could ingest enough water to be poisoned by it. This doesn't sound like a harmless technique to me.
Khalid Sheikh Mohammad was waterboarded 183 times in 1 month.
AbuZubaydah was waterboarded 83 times in 1 month.
These abuses of power CANNOT go unpunished! Our nation claims to be a fair, civilized nation (notice I said claims...) - we cannot afford to lose further credibility by sweeping this under the rug. It's unacceptable, against international law and is un-American.
In 2002, Jay Bybee (now a Federal Judge on the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals) wrote a memo as part of his duties with the Office of Legal Council. This assignment became the infamous "Bybee Memo". It made a legal argument for moving particular interrogations into an "increased pressure phase". This memo dealt with the treatment of AbuZubaydah. His name should sound familiar. He was sold to most of us as an alQaeda mastermind, more recent evidence suggests that he was more of a hanger on and should have never been considered a high value target. However, operating under the assumption that they had a meaningful intelligence target the CIA wished to use techniques that weren't "approved". This memo gave them (written to John Rizzo, Acting General Council to the CIA) the fuzzy legal rationale for doing things that were not only illegal, but were against the ideals of this nation. Or at least I think it is. Others seem to not be so sure.
Just so we are clear..... When this memo was written - Torture was ILLEGAL under the United States Code. (It still is, but the code has been tweaked a bit).
United States Code, Title 18, Chapter 113, Section 2340 -- Definitions
As used in this chapter -- (1) "torture" means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control; (2) "severe mental pain or suffering" means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from -- (A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering; (B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, or mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality; (C) the threat of imminent death; or (D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality; and (3) "United States" includes all areas under the jurisdiction of the United States including any of the places described in sections 5 and 7 of this title and section 46501(2) of title 49.
United States Code, Title 18, Chapter 113, Section 2340A -- Torture
(a) Offense.--Whoever outside the United States commits or attempts to commit torture shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both, and if death results to any person from conduct prohibited by this subsection, shall be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life. (b) Jurisdiction.--There is jurisdiction over the activity prohibited in subsection (a) if-- (1) the alleged offender is a national of the United States; or (2) the alleged offender is present in the United States, irrespective of the nationality of the victim or alleged offender
Contrary to what Rush seems to think, the outrage over these memos and the conduct of these interrogators is not about them slapping people around - or in the case of Joe Scarborough, we aren't upset by them throwing a little water in someone's face. The outrage is over waterboarding, over convincing detainees that the would be killed if they didn't talk, sleep deprivation (that according to the memo could be as long as 11 days), stress positions for hours upon hours, being crammed into a small dark, dank box for hours on end....these are things that we would not want to be done to American soldiers/citizens and as such we should under no circumstances use these techniques, no matter what kind of legal "loop holes" can be found.
One of my biggest issues with this is that these detainees often were subjected to these types of tactics, without being proven guilty of ANYTHING. Warlords turned people in for money - and we took their word for it. People were rounded up for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If you would like more information on this subject: I highly recommend the film: Taxi to the Dark Side.
If this film doesn't make you sick and angry at the conduct depicted, please seek help from a mental health professional.
Many seem to think the disclosure of these memos some how "weakens" our country. I wholeheartedly disagree. Conducting ourselves and governmental affairs under the rule of law has been an important principle of our nation since its founding. We have not always lived up to that principle - but I do not believe we should ever abandon the pursuit.
The disclosure of these memos is a step in the right direction. We must purge this and the rest of the demented frat boy behavior that has permeated the military/contractor/intelligence ranks. Bottom line...if we wouldn't want it done to one of ours, we shouldn't do it.
I was distressed that President Obama stated that the interrogators would not be prosecuted for their role in detainee abuse and torture. I hope that this does not mean that the legal minds that perverted our law to allow this will get off the hook. These people KNEW this was wrong - they ignored the spirit and bent the word of law to allow this. They must be held accountable, if there was pressure from above to make the case, they should be held accountable as well.
I have only read the first memo - I'm still trying to get through the others and the Red Cross report - so this will probably end up as a bit of a series. I am very interested in your input on this issue, so please don't be shy!
My last post was directed at Senator Pat Roberts (R-KS), well, now Senator Sam Brownback is rearing his ugly head regarding Obama's nominee for the Ambassadorship to Iraq. As you might imagine, that position is a bit important... Here's Rachel Maddow:
So - am I understanding this correctly? The party of the "up or down" vote, is holding important nominations hostage due to their need to keep the transgressions of the Bush Administration hidden? As TexBetsy at Relaxed Politics posted on Friday with more fun from Rachel Maddow - the problem of torture will haunt us for the foreseeable future, unless of course we have the intestinal fortitude to investigate and punish those responsible for this mess. The Capitol Beat has a good article on the need for investigation and prosecution.
It is time for the American people to make our elected officials understand that we will not have torture used in our names, we will not hide their skeletons in our closets and we have a need to know.
Criminal proceedings have begun in Spain against six senior officials in the Bush administration for the use of torture against detainees in Guantánamo Bay. Baltasar Garzón, the counter-terrorism judge whose prosecution of General Augusto Pinochet led to his arrest in Britain in 1998, has referred the case to the chief prosecutor before deciding whether to proceed.
The case is bound to threaten Spain's relations with the new administration in Washington, but Gonzalo Boyé, one of the four lawyers who wrote the lawsuit, said the prosecutor would have little choice under Spanish law but to approve the prosecution.
"The only route of escape the prosecutor might have is to ask whether there is ongoing process in the US against these people," Boyé told the Observer. "This case will go ahead. It will be against the law not to go ahead."
The officials named in the case include the most senior legal minds in the Bush administration. They are: Alberto Gonzales, a former White House counsel and attorney general; David Addington, former vice-president Dick Cheney's chief of staff; Douglas Feith, who was under-secretary of defence; William Haynes, formerly the Pentagon's general counsel; and John Yoo and Jay Bybee, who were both senior justice department legal advisers.
Court documents say that, without their legal advice in a series of internal administration memos, "it would have been impossible to structure a legal framework that supported what happened [in Guantánamo]".
When Nancy Pelosi took impeachment off the table, I knew the idea of holding the Bush administration accountable for their crimes was probably a lost cause. The current administration doesn't seem very gung ho to investigate either.
Why?
Torture is wrong. Period. There is no evidence that I can find of a "24" like instance where the world was saved by beating or waterboarding someone. In fact, Huff Post is linking to a Washington Post article regarding the "harsh treatment" of Abu Zubaida. No plots were foiled, time was wasted and we undermined our principals. Pretty sure that = EPIC FAIL!
